Craig Underhill - ceramic artist extraordinaire!

[00:00:00] when you feel like suicide, you must be going down the right track. I think if it's sort of

[00:00:06] if it gives you that buzz and then I think I'm doing it right.

[00:00:14] Hi, I'm Bob Acton and I'm pleased to share my conversation with the award-winning sculptor Craig

[00:00:20] Andreill. Craig was born in Scotland and studied at Harold College of Higher Education,

[00:00:26] Portsmouth Polytechnic and then at the University of Eastern Illinois in the United States.

[00:00:33] He is an award-winning ceramicist and since relocating to West Cornwall in 2020,

[00:00:41] he continues to explore and discover the dramas in the beauty of the coastline as inspiration

[00:00:47] for his distinctive painterly, playful and elemental hand-built ceramic forms.

[00:00:54] He uses a variety of markmaking, layering and glazing techniques that he focus sense of place

[00:01:01] which we discussed during our conversation. I hope you enjoy this episode and you can find out

[00:01:07] more about Craig in the show notes. Welcome to Colour and Ceramics, the podcast for Ceramic

[00:01:16] Artists who want valuable ideas about using color from leading artists and world class experts.

[00:01:23] Here's your host Bob Acton, a sculptor and ceramic artist who's fascinated with color

[00:01:28] and help otters sculptors and artists use color in their work. Tune in as he talks with

[00:01:34] this guest about color techniques and the impact of color on people and art itself.

[00:01:40] Craig, thank you very much for joining us here on the Colour and Ceramics podcast. We're super excited

[00:01:46] you're here. Thanks, Bob. Thanks for inviting me. I'm looking forward to having to all.

[00:01:51] Absolutely, it's going to be great. I think because of course, I love your work and I love

[00:01:56] color and you really use color a lot in your work and not only color but I really like your

[00:02:04] use of texture and different ways to finish your pieces and so we'll learn a lot about all of

[00:02:10] those sorts of things here today so super glad we can have this conversation.

[00:02:16] Great. Yeah. I'll include our client joy talking about my work. So I'm calling people too.

[00:02:21] That's perfect then. I know that you've been doing this for a while so I wondered if you could

[00:02:27] share with the audience a little bit about your journey like with Gacha here today.

[00:02:35] Gosh, well it's starting several decades ago. I went to university when I was quite young

[00:02:44] and started ceramics. I've been out with my very early 20th. In fact, I was probably still a teenager

[00:02:49] when I was at university and then having left university there was a period where I wasn't

[00:02:56] well, I was trying to do my work but I was also trying to earn a living and things were very slow.

[00:03:02] Probably for about 10 or 12 years until gradually opportunity started coming up and

[00:03:11] I was making my work more and more I'd better set up and I suppose

[00:03:19] teaching has been a big part of what I've done as well. I only do my own work drops now.

[00:03:25] I did teach in a college for quite a while and that helped financially but now I'm sort of

[00:03:30] relying on the income from making my work and it's been exposed. It is my life now.

[00:03:37] It's a really important part of me and my identity. I hate to imagine not being able to do it.

[00:03:45] Yes, absolutely. I think it's awesome that you're able to earn a full-time living

[00:03:53] being a ceramic artist. That is great. It's not easy and funnily and I was just thinking this

[00:04:02] morning but it's a bit of a... There's not a lot of difference between succeeding and not succeeding

[00:04:13] and I think there are very good people that maybe don't manage to do that.

[00:04:18] And I feel I feel as opposed, I've only been able to do it because I've worked at it for quite a

[00:04:23] long time. I suppose though you could work at it in the wrong way and still be unsuccessful.

[00:04:31] So what is it that you think that helps people be successful?

[00:04:36] I think it's quite interesting when you get a bit older, you can reflect on that and I think

[00:04:43] it's a blind determination. And also a little bit... I was talking to somebody else about this

[00:04:50] and why we go. I feel I've got this high sense of responsibility. So when I went to university

[00:04:59] to do ceramics, I felt at that point that I was almost saying I'm going to be a ceramic artist.

[00:05:06] Now it took a long time to get there but I felt I almost had a responsibility to do that.

[00:05:11] And I sort of stuck with it and there's lots of occasions where I could have given up or maybe

[00:05:19] even become a painter or done something else in the creative arts. But I just felt I had to stick with it.

[00:05:25] In my mind, I've got said that that's what I was going to do. So I think I'm going to put it

[00:05:33] in. I can see that I was talking with somebody the other day who has gone into creating a studio

[00:05:41] where he rents out space to other people and then that has consumed his energy and his creative mind.

[00:05:50] And so he's not using doing so much work anymore in the studio. He's, I guess, being a manager

[00:05:57] of the state or a building. So I see what you mean by those moments.

[00:06:02] Well, as I said, I did a lot of teaching at a college and that was quite, that became really

[00:06:09] quite difficult to do both well because my work opportunities for making my ceramic work with

[00:06:17] were coming along. And I felt I was having to say no or put them on hold because I was involved

[00:06:23] with teaching and when I was teaching, there was a high standard that was expected. So I was trying

[00:06:30] to do two jobs. You know, really well but it was, that was very demanding. And in the end, I decided

[00:06:41] I need to give on my teaching in order to pursue becoming a ceramic artist and just do this.

[00:06:48] Just do one thing well, but I was trying to do two things well. And I know many of the pieces that you

[00:06:54] make are 3D and sit on the table like a vase or those kinds of things. And I also know that you do

[00:07:03] some painting. Do you make ceramic pieces that hang on the wall like a painting?

[00:07:11] I do make ceramic pieces at home on my wall and I know it's a visual thing,

[00:07:14] this but there's a few behind me up there. But yes, I don't make many of those. I do paint and I do

[00:07:23] make 3D and most of what I do creatively is making 3D ceramic forms and then they're pretty much

[00:07:31] always best or for, but not functional. And I see them really as being painting as made in 3D.

[00:07:38] That's how I go about thinking about them, how I go about doing them. It's a very painterly approach.

[00:07:48] Right? So that the clay itself becomes the canvas in lots of ways.

[00:07:56] Yeah and it's, and I do paint and I paint it on canvas, I paint it on board, but I always

[00:08:02] come back to ceramic materials because they've got such a richness that I feel I can't really get

[00:08:09] with paint. I think just the possibilities are so just endless with ceramics. The ways you can use

[00:08:17] different ceramic materials in combinations in different states of dryness or wetness.

[00:08:24] I think that continuous exploration of materials is something that really keeps me interested

[00:08:31] and brings me back to working ceramics. The good thing about painting is the instant

[00:08:41] feeling of putting color on and that's the color you're going to get. Ceramic has always

[00:08:47] this delay in putting material on and then in your mind's dark, you are thinking about the color

[00:08:55] you're going to get, but you only know later on when it's been fired. I don't get frustrated

[00:09:01] but why not? But what I do, I do like EVGC of instant color. It is certainly true with ceramics

[00:09:09] that there's a long period of time between the idea and the end product typically. You've got

[00:09:17] not only make your clay or use the clay then you have to let it dry then you have to be

[00:09:21] skin typically or fire at once and then fire it again and so depending on the materials as

[00:09:28] you've said sometimes what comes out of the kiln can be a bit of a surprise.

[00:09:33] Yeah, there's always quite enjoyable really but that's not knowing completely what's going to

[00:09:42] happen. I think I've got a very good idea about what material we're going to do. But when they're

[00:09:47] in combination and when they're layered on top of each other you only really know what you've got

[00:09:52] when you open the kiln, when taking a work count and then examine it and look at it and live

[00:09:56] with it for a while. So yeah, it's unlike painting in that respect. But the other thing about

[00:10:04] the other reason I prefer making ceramics is that it's the 3D quality of it as well. It's

[00:10:09] making marks, it's not just making marks on the flat surface, it's making marks in combination with

[00:10:16] 3D forms which literally adds another dimension. It's thinking about how lines go around something

[00:10:23] and round edges and how shapes can sort of jot ends up before and I just even just talking

[00:10:30] about that, you know you can feel your mind buzzing with that sort of visually excitement that

[00:10:36] you can get through ceramics and making 3D forms and painting marks together. Yeah, can you tell us a

[00:10:43] bit more about that? That's pretty interesting about how you think about and I can I could feel

[00:10:48] your excitement here as we're talking about it. Can you tell us a little bit about how you think

[00:10:53] about lines and shapes and so on, going around the 3D piece with our song? Yeah, how I think about it.

[00:11:07] That's quite tricky actually. I think it's just it's very immediate actually. It's part

[00:11:13] of spontaneous approach but there's also some planning so I do draw in sketchbooks and I think

[00:11:20] a little bit about what I'm making before I make it. But then as the ceramic piece evolves,

[00:11:26] it becomes something different to the little plan that you had at the initial seed that was in

[00:11:31] the sketchbook it sort of grows into its own thing. And I just think when you're building this

[00:11:40] form in front of you that you've got to I just enjoy turning it around and seeing how marks go

[00:11:46] around the one side to the other and the and the steps that you get in the rim and how one color

[00:11:53] can be up close to another one. It's just a real enjoyment of the actual doing of it.

[00:12:00] Yeah, that's that's the moment I really like as being in the studio and putting marks and textures

[00:12:06] onto clay. It's very spontaneous for you. It sounds like that you do do some sketches and

[00:12:13] some thinking about what it might look like but then when you've got the brush in your hand,

[00:12:18] that's when the sketch kind of disappears a little bit and the piece emerges out of the clay

[00:12:25] and the work. Yeah, absolutely because and so I'm building this piece of work and something

[00:12:33] might just suggest itself. As I'm making or as I'm thinking about color and then I can just

[00:12:39] visualize something in my head and I think oh yeah, I'm going to do that so I get excited about

[00:12:45] I'm going to make a brush mark, I'm going to use these I just suddenly get this realisation of these

[00:12:51] two colors like work well together. There's a lot of time in the studio where it's someone

[00:12:57] saw me making their work. I'd be standing there doing nothing it looks like but all the time

[00:13:03] you're trying to visualize in your brain you're thinking about what's going to look like if I do this

[00:13:09] what's going to look like if I do that what will these more of that color with this texture

[00:13:14] of like and I think that that sort of creative thinking is really enjoyable. I love that and

[00:13:23] there's a lot of time spent doing that. I often say that the initial doing of something

[00:13:30] can be done very quick and some of them are a second to make it the market but it might have

[00:13:36] taken me 10 minutes to think about it about the gesture that I'd used to make that mark or the

[00:13:42] two I would use or where at point my end of finish, but the actual doing of it can be very

[00:13:51] quick and there's a lot of kind of but it's not just planning it sort of always practicing

[00:13:59] that gesture in your mind before you actually do it. It's almost as if you visualize it on the

[00:14:06] piece before you make the mark and you could do that in multiple different ways until in your mind

[00:14:14] you settle on something that you feel comfortable with and then you make them.

[00:14:18] Yeah and sometimes unconsciously I find myself practicing as if I have a brush in my hand

[00:14:25] and I'll sort of go up to the piece of work and make a mark. As if I was doing it,

[00:14:31] no always like a practice this rhyme to think oh yeah it would feel like that if I did that or it

[00:14:35] would feel like that if I push a bit of texture in that. It's interesting as you talk you know

[00:14:42] my question earlier was how do you think about things and really you're thinking in terms of

[00:14:46] emotional reactions to your work it sounds like. You're wondering how you might feel when you

[00:14:53] move your hand in a certain way or somehow some of my pop out visually for you. Yes and that gives

[00:15:01] you a bit of excitement. That's the thing that when you feel that excitement you must be

[00:15:06] must be going down the right track. I think if it's sort of if it gives you that buzz

[00:15:11] and then you then I think I'm doing it right. Having said it doesn't always you know there are

[00:15:19] I always think it's important to try and get across that there's a lot of

[00:15:24] failures in the studio as well and not everything is a success and not every time

[00:15:31] I go into the studio I'm able to do what I want to do sometimes I'll spend half an hour an hour

[00:15:39] and I think it's just not happening today and I just sort of have to leave it. And

[00:15:44] then you know on another day the time will just pass without me sort of realizing and I think oh yeah

[00:15:50] that's good I had a good day it's complete mess I've got everything out but amongst that the

[00:15:56] recent pieces of work I think yeah these are okay. Yeah absolutely I really resonate with what

[00:16:02] you're saying because I think over the years I've learned to trust myself so that when I'm down

[00:16:09] in the studio and it's not working I can let it go. I think in the past I wouldn't try to stick it out

[00:16:15] and stay there when it wasn't working sounds like you're the same. Yeah I think that's

[00:16:21] so that's very true you do trust yourself and I think I always go to this studio with the hope

[00:16:27] that I can still do it and I spoke if if I can then yeah I know maybe the next day it will be

[00:16:35] okay again. Yeah yeah for sure but that I think also it sounds like that from your perspective

[00:16:43] it really is important to understand the technical pieces behind what you're doing so that that

[00:16:50] you're able to have that freedom. Does that make sense? Yeah I think it's about understanding material

[00:16:58] and what you can do with them and how they behave. I think I relied on that more than I

[00:17:06] realized. I do realize it now but maybe in the past when I was young I didn't I didn't know

[00:17:13] I was relying on that knowledge and the more you you more the more you make your work and

[00:17:18] what you're working with these materials the more you realise their potential how they're going to

[00:17:23] pay you what you can do with them. So yes I'm understanding that the materials allows you to

[00:17:30] allow you to push big sort of boundaries of creative advice. Yeah for sure because if you don't know

[00:17:38] your technical piece you don't know the materials that you're talking about then you're an

[00:17:43] ultimate vision may or may not turn out if you're not using them correctly. Absolutely and particularly

[00:17:51] with ceramics because as we were just talking about you've got that delay in finding out whether it's

[00:17:57] worth if you do something on a painting you can see pretty instantly whether that's worked or not but

[00:18:03] in ceramics you can invest a lot of time going down wrong route or spows and then

[00:18:10] and then you find out once it works we find that it didn't do what you wanted. Yeah I'm interested

[00:18:17] in how people practice often you know you were talking about instantly kind of practicing a gesture

[00:18:23] that your or mark you are going to make on it and and I know lots of people in the studio keep

[00:18:30] pretty meticulous records about using this particular slip or glaze or combination. Do you do that

[00:18:38] are you a person who tracks that kind of stuff? No I don't know at all I think that's I find

[00:18:45] quite off putting really bad delay that you can have when you start recording and and weighing

[00:18:53] out and measuring but I think I do have that record but it's in all of the work that I've made

[00:19:00] so for me it's quite important to have pieces of work around studio and they they themselves remind

[00:19:07] to me about you know what happens when I use these two materials together or I'll just slip

[00:19:13] in this on go or that clay body and that's over whatever and so so that record is in in my work.

[00:19:23] So you keep a record. You keep a record you just don't write it down.

[00:19:29] Yeah it's just all around with that record yeah yeah I often refer to pieces of old work for

[00:19:37] for maybe ideas so you're sort of progressing an idea from a piece of work from the past

[00:19:45] sort of into something new and so this I think one of when people ask you know what

[00:19:51] whatever your main influences are got lots of different influences but but actually old

[00:19:55] the pieces of work are important influences as well. There's often something I feel like

[00:20:01] I can pick up on an developer that I have enough of those the reference of old work around

[00:20:09] very clock very core so what is inspiring you today what's exciting you what's

[00:20:17] getting you out a bit in the morning with respect to clay.

[00:20:21] And I just want to say any day actually that's going to go to work in this year when

[00:20:30] the weather is quite nice because we're sort of going through winter now and I'm really looking

[00:20:35] forward to sort of the life of things but I think that I always say talk about the landscape

[00:20:41] and where I live being important to the it's an important influence on my work and this is again

[00:20:50] again it's something with age that you realise that it always has been even when I was a student

[00:20:56] I didn't realise I was doing it if I was making work there it was influenced by my surroundings

[00:21:02] and my landscape that I was living in London when I was a student and then I went to

[00:21:09] porsmart for city on the South Coast of England which is not naval at city and I was influenced

[00:21:15] by all the maritime buildings that were around. Then I moved to the middle of Zeninggrund

[00:21:23] and really enjoyed coming to Cornwall which is where I live now and Cornwall is just a very

[00:21:29] beautiful place but it's got this sort of sense of human history within it you can see

[00:21:37] where it's sort of marks that I made in the landscape by people that lived here thousands of years

[00:21:44] ago and you can still see that and I love that so it's sort of connection to mankind as God

[00:21:53] human kind has got to the landscape that's very evident in Cornwall so the landscape,

[00:21:58] my surroundings and knowing my place in my surroundings is really important to my ceramic work. I

[00:22:04] love just going out to walk or running and even just driving me I drove from the shop this morning

[00:22:11] and it was quite looking forward to the trip because there is a road close there was a

[00:22:17] diverse and it's not how to go a different way and I thought it'd be quite exciting just drive

[00:22:21] down that lane because you see the fields from a different angle and you see different things

[00:22:26] in the fields, different colors in the fields. So it's not just being in the landscape is my biggest

[00:22:34] influence. I can see that in your work and when people hear this podcast and go to find you

[00:22:41] on Instagram or on your website they'll certainly see what they're talking about with this

[00:22:47] with your second to this notion of landscape because it's it's really true. Now you've got some

[00:22:54] really interesting pieces the work that you use has lots of edges on it I might say or different

[00:23:01] pieces that are moved together. Can you talk about the experience you have in applying color

[00:23:11] and surface decoration and yet listening to the forum of the piece. How do you balance that out?

[00:23:20] Well it's I've been aware for quite a while but I want my when I don't want to be making

[00:23:29] 3D forms that I then decorate and the term decorate is one I don't like that word. I

[00:23:37] shouldn't use it again because I feel that the form and the surface should be one and I'm always

[00:23:47] trying to find ways of integrating mark making and form together. So often I you talk about edges

[00:23:55] I'll cut pieces out of a form and maybe stick another piece back in and that piece that I

[00:24:04] stick in becomes a shape on the surface but it's also it also interrupts the form in some way

[00:24:11] so it's sort of combines very closely form and surface together and I think I think ceramic is

[00:24:20] quite unique in many ways that it is it is about form and surface paintings about surface generally

[00:24:28] sculpture is often about form and ceramics combines the two together but I think it is important to

[00:24:36] combine the two together and I don't actually be separate. I don't think we should be looking at sort of

[00:24:40] beautiful forms with interesting decoration. I think I want them to be like really locked together.

[00:24:47] I want them to be the same thing. So the people are not noticing the decoration they're noticing

[00:24:53] the whole thing as a combined unit. Yes, yeah often I'll sort of cut a piece in half and

[00:25:02] one half might be one color and one one half might be another color so this that sort of

[00:25:07] interruption is made into the form by cutting it but that but it also becomes this sort of

[00:25:13] part of the surface because you've got these two different halves working together and then the

[00:25:20] that's sorry the idea of that is again I've talked about sketchbooks. I've really enjoyed doing

[00:25:29] collage work in my sketchbook finding bits of bits of paper bits of going through the recycling

[00:25:36] box and tearing up bits of card and newspaper and and sticking them together in my sketchbook

[00:25:42] because it almost feels like a building with slabs of clay and these different sort of shapes and

[00:25:50] textures and combining them together in quite a playful way that might then go and suggest a 3D piece of work.

[00:26:00] Right, cool. What kind of color application do you use? Are you using slabs or underglazes?

[00:26:07] Can you type a little bit about that? Yeah, I think what what I always say is I call it

[00:26:13] I always call it a mixed media approach because I'm using slip that's made that that I mix up but

[00:26:22] also slip that I made it make out of clay bodies if there's a clay body that I like then I can

[00:26:27] I can turn it into a slip and then use that on the surface. I use ongoing a lot as well

[00:26:33] and a lot of people ask me what about what is an ongoing but it's very similar to a slip. It's just not quite

[00:26:38] dry. There's a slip I use underglades colors, I use pastels and underglades pencils and I use

[00:26:48] glazes that are normally fired to comb one but I also have a glaze that I fire too much

[00:26:55] lower temperatures as well. It really is quite a mixed media approach and that sort of comes

[00:27:03] back to we were talking about like knowing your materials. I like the knowledge of what

[00:27:12] at range and materials, what you can achieve with that range of materials at different temperatures.

[00:27:20] And I always when I'm doing workshops I always talk to students about not just what the material

[00:27:31] is that you're using. Supposing we're talking about an ongoing, I use this basic going on

[00:27:35] going quite a lot. It's not just the material that's important, it's important to think about how

[00:27:42] you apply that onto the surface. So the obvious thing to do is to get a brush and put it on and I

[00:27:48] do a lot of that but when you then you can think about what type of brush and then you can think

[00:27:54] about what consistency is the on the water bath, it's very very watery but then what about

[00:27:59] it's very very thick. What about if you let it dry out into a then mash it into a powder

[00:28:04] and sort of put it on with your hand. What about if you fire a little bit first to then grind it up

[00:28:10] and then embed it into the surface. So it's not just a matter of what other materials,

[00:28:19] it's about how creative can you be in thinking about how you put that material onto the surface

[00:28:25] of the piece of clay. The experimental life of Craig Underhill. Yeah, yeah and that's

[00:28:33] that's when I went over in the studio, that's when I've had a good day because I feel I'm not

[00:28:37] just late in my work but I've been a big experimental as well. Yeah, yeah I see a big smile and

[00:28:43] your face when you're talking about that so to me that's really something that you would encourage

[00:28:48] your students to do and you do yourself on a regular basis. Yes, I think it's I often get asked

[00:28:57] what materials do you, I always think it doesn't matter what materials are used. That's not the

[00:29:02] important question. How do you put them on surface of masters? And of course there's a million

[00:29:08] different ways to do that, isn't there? Yeah, yeah and then you can flick it through it. Pour whatever.

[00:29:14] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah it's funny when you go to your ceramics class first I remember the

[00:29:20] first one I took I thought all you did was dip your piece but now I realize like you,

[00:29:25] you can do it in a myriad of different ways. Yeah, I often when I when I meet you

[00:29:32] and they quite often say that what they seem to come with ideas that there are rules

[00:29:42] about how you use a slip or a long go. And I think it's in ceramics that does seem to be rules

[00:29:48] that have been said somewhere along the line. You have to sort of question that, you should

[00:29:56] only have rules where they need it. I think I think those you know where the rarer rules

[00:30:01] they need to be challenged. Why can't I slip on a biscuit by it? And try it, you know,

[00:30:09] see what happens. Yeah, for sure. I suppose the rules maybe came out of functional where

[00:30:14] where there are some rules about safety of pieces but then once you're beyond that or when you're

[00:30:20] doing sculptural work like you are a non-functional work then the rules kind of get the window.

[00:30:27] Yeah, that's true. Yes, I suppose when you need to depart to function and it had to be water proof

[00:30:34] then maybe you do need rules. Yeah, you need a few of them absolutely.

[00:30:39] Do you have any particular color combinations that you like that you work with?

[00:30:45] And I get excited about thinking about combinations. That varies, that is quite

[00:30:53] changeable. I kept seeing pink and green together in the environment and sort of spring time

[00:31:04] here and for some reason those two colors were sort of growing or could be seen at the same time

[00:31:12] and I was quite excited about that pink and green combination at one time

[00:31:17] and then there was another occasion a few years ago where I was walking in a bite harbour

[00:31:23] and there was this yellow rusty boat and some of the colors and that yellow rusty boat were just

[00:31:28] amazing because you had the orangey colors from the rusty iron but it was painted yellow

[00:31:34] and that sort of depth of different yellows. But as well as that there was a little red plaque

[00:31:41] on the side of both so you had all these rich yellows and then this little spark of red and

[00:31:48] I think that's it. You know visually it was really something. So then red and yellow were

[00:31:54] a thing for me. So it's almost like I see things in the landscape and then

[00:31:59] and then I it's almost like then you have permission to go and use it because you've sort of seen

[00:32:03] it somewhere. I mean that notion of being excited about color or surface

[00:32:11] is really really important for you and your work. Yes it is. I do get a bus from

[00:32:21] I kind of you know you can't really explain what that is but it is quite exciting and I think

[00:32:25] color is exciting. It does give you a buzz or a lot of people and as I say when I'm in the studio

[00:32:32] visualise sometimes I'll be thinking of this part going to be yellow, it's going to be yellow

[00:32:36] and then I just visualise this little pink up there. It's like your brain buzzers

[00:32:41] because you've just put this yet you just seen in your mind's eye yellow and then

[00:32:46] not bit of pink and you think well how if I'm so excited to get there you do it.

[00:32:52] Yeah absolutely. So if you could think about a person

[00:32:58] I don't know what stage of their career somebody is wanting to make a change or maybe somebody

[00:33:02] knew to ceramics. What kind of advice would you give them about how to

[00:33:08] afford in the best way? It's supposed to depend on what your goal is whether you're trying to do it

[00:33:15] to become a sort of professional or you're doing it because you enjoy it. I think I mean maybe

[00:33:22] that's an important thing is to keep enjoying it, make sure you're keeping enjoying it.

[00:33:29] I think when I left the university I suddenly had this sort of dilemma that I thought

[00:33:35] I've got to earn some money from making ceramics. So me and Emma my partner we rented a little

[00:33:45] studio and we started making throne slipwear and we had very sort of limited success selling it.

[00:33:54] At the same time I managed to get a bit of work teaching and that you know financially

[00:33:59] that helped and it meant that I was free to kind of do what I wanted at the studio and I started

[00:34:04] making my own work rather than work I thought I could sell and I just had more success with the work

[00:34:11] that I was there was genuine than I was having with the work that I was sort of trying to

[00:34:18] make to fulfill a market I didn't really know is that I just saw you know be honest and just make

[00:34:25] what comes out of you and people will appreciate that. That's definitely you know if you want to

[00:34:32] get somewhere with you work make once in your heart and and people will respond to that.

[00:34:40] It says if there's an energy within the piece that's put into the piece from the maker

[00:34:47] that is received by the other people or the people who are viewing other touching it.

[00:34:55] It's amazing because you can't fool people as well that will come across

[00:35:00] where they are trying to put it across or if you try to mask something else that people will see

[00:35:07] your work for what it is if it's a genuine response and it's just the way that you

[00:35:12] I suppose you talk about it in the way you present to people know whether that's a genuine piece of

[00:35:18] work that's come out of you and that's what people want. They want something and they want a piece

[00:35:23] of work that tells them something about how you see the world. Really important. What is it that

[00:35:32] you're trying to communicate with your work? Yeah, I don't really know what I don't know that

[00:35:44] and I think about that because I could say well it's about my experience in the landscape

[00:35:52] but I suppose it is but they're not literal pieces of work. I don't know, it's just some

[00:36:00] sort of enjoyment about how I see the world. I think that might sound a bit vague

[00:36:06] but I think that's all I've got on that. But I think that's really true. I mean think that I'm

[00:36:13] picking that up when I'm talking with you it's your joy of making the work that's influenced by

[00:36:20] the landscape but really you're sharing your joy with the world. Yeah, yes it is. I mean

[00:36:28] you could get quite sort of deep about it and it's a joy of life and being alive as well

[00:36:36] and just thinking about being on the on this planet and being aware of everything that's

[00:36:43] around you. It's about being human isn't it, about being human being alive. Absolutely and I think that's

[00:36:50] what people resonate when they we were talking about energy a second ago right? I think that's what

[00:36:56] people relate to when they see your work. Yes, I think I think because maybe the people that

[00:37:03] buy my work, they can't that they couldn't make maybe a ceramic piece of work that

[00:37:11] fulfills that and excitement that they got but maybe they can see it in my work. So so they can

[00:37:19] relate to it and it's wonderful when people do see my work and they buy it because it's almost like

[00:37:26] we're communicating on some level that is very is you can't have that in a conversation.

[00:37:32] If I put my work out in front of people people come to look at it and they go, oh I love that

[00:37:37] I'm going to give you my money for that then you've connected on a real basic but so

[00:37:46] fundamental level it's really quite it's quite something it's quite it can be quite new thing

[00:37:52] really many ways. Absolutely it's quite visceral. I was thinking as you were talking I don't know

[00:37:59] I am doing this but I was thinking of my living room and a table I've got in my living room and

[00:38:05] I thought you know if I have a piece of yours on that table in my living room I've got a bit of your

[00:38:11] joy sitting here with it. Yeah yeah yes absolutely and that's what people have they take a piece of

[00:38:18] work and they have it in their life and therefore they've got a bit of how I see the world

[00:38:25] then that helps them how they see the world. It's sort of always made you confirm something about

[00:38:29] how they they see the world but they couldn't communicate it in a ceramic object or a piece of

[00:38:34] visual art but I could for them so so it's say something to them. What a perfect way to end our

[00:38:42] conversation here Craig. That's a great message for I think potters and artists is about making

[00:38:51] sure that your joy is being put into the piece that'll help you with selling your pieces it'll

[00:38:58] help you with connecting with customers and clients and help you live the joyful life that you

[00:39:05] want to live yourself. Yeah yeah absolutely yeah. When you're an introvert who enjoys

[00:39:15] working alone in the shed in this studio then you know but you also need that connection with people

[00:39:22] and then you can get that through exhibiting showing talking about your work. Yeah for sure

[00:39:29] you just have to manage it a little differently if you're an introvert versus an extrovert but

[00:39:34] for sure you do need that. Yeah yeah yeah absolutely. Hey thanks so much for being on the podcast

[00:39:41] here today I really appreciated you just been in the time with us and sharing some of your ideas about

[00:39:46] your work and I'm excited to see it in person next time I'm in the UK. Thanks very much Bob

[00:39:54] it's been nice to talk to you yeah thank you. Thanks for listening to the color in ceramic spot

[00:40:02] cast with Bob Act and his guests. Please help others find the podcast by subscribing to this podcast

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