Georgie Gardiner: A dazzling UK Potter alive with colour!

[00:00:00] When I was younger, I'd look at other people and I'd go, I'd be really happy if I was making your work. You know, I was very self critical, and I never really liked anything that I made in the past. And I think probably the biggest thing is discovering a style that I actually really enjoy making.

[00:00:28] I'm Bob Acton and I'm pleased to introduce Georgie Gardiner to you in this episode. Georgie is a wonderful potter in the UK. She studied workshop ceramics at Harrow and then ran her studio at the Chocolate Factory in Stoke Newington for 10 years before moving to Surrey, where she now has a garden studio. She creates distinctive bowls and vessels on the wheel. Each piece is unique. The decoration is unique.

[00:00:57] The decoration is cut from paper by hand and applied to the leather hard clay before adding layers of colour. The paper is then peeled back to reveal the bold graphic motifs before firing. I hope you enjoy this conversation where we talked about colour, surface design and the challenges about working with clay. All the notes will contain links to her websites and Instagram.

[00:01:22] Welcome to colour and ceramics.

[00:01:27] Welcome to colour and ceramics, the podcast for ceramic artists who want valuable ideas about using colour from leading artists and world class experts. Here's your host, Bob Acton, a sculptor and ceramic artist who's fascinated with colour and how potters, sculptors and artists use colour in their work. Tune in as he talks with his guests about colour, techniques and the impact of colour on people and art itself.

[00:01:51] Georgie, thanks so much for joining us today on colour and ceramics.

[00:01:54] Georgie, thanks so much for joining us here today on the colour and ceramics podcast. I really appreciate you taking the time and the opportunity for us to learn more about your beautiful work that you do in the UK.

[00:02:06] Thank you.

[00:02:07] Thank you.

[00:02:07] Yes, absolutely.

[00:02:08] Inviting me on.

[00:02:09] Oh, you're most welcome.

[00:02:11] I was enthralled with the colours that you use in your work and I'm sure that lots of people will be interested in some of the techniques that you use, although I've got your Instagram set up here on my computer.

[00:02:26] So I'm looking at it as we're chatting and I can see that you are sharing many of your techniques on there already.

[00:02:35] So that's pretty cool.

[00:02:37] You know, obviously this work that you do has taken years of hard work and consistency and so on.

[00:02:48] I wonder if you could tell us just a little bit about your journey, where you started and what you've done to get you here today.

[00:02:55] Sure.

[00:02:59] Well, I left school at 16 and school was horrible.

[00:03:04] I hated it.

[00:03:06] And I really didn't know what I wanted to do.

[00:03:09] So I got onto a secretarial course and I lasted a couple of months there and I knew I definitely didn't want to work in an office.

[00:03:19] And a friend had suggested a window dressing course, which was a BTEC diploma, a two year course, which I got onto.

[00:03:32] And they did half day ceramics on that course.

[00:03:36] And I found that I was spending all of my time in the ceramic department.

[00:03:43] All my window displays had some kind of element of clay.

[00:03:48] You know, and when we had to do work experience, I went and did a week's work experience with a potter up in Nottingham.

[00:03:58] And I just fell in love with clay there.

[00:04:00] I did do clay at school, but I didn't really do anything very good at school.

[00:04:10] But it was at college that I really, I kind of came into myself.

[00:04:15] I, you know, discovered a bit more about, you know, the things I liked.

[00:04:22] And I discovered Lucy Rhee as well.

[00:04:26] And she had quite an impact, not just because of her work, but the fact that she was still potting in her 80s.

[00:04:37] That, that was a really major influence.

[00:04:40] And I, from then I just, you know, I wanted to be a potter and I wanted to do it forever.

[00:04:47] I didn't, you know, want to have a job and retire from it.

[00:04:52] Um, so from there I did an arts foundation for a year and specialized in ceramics.

[00:04:58] And then after that, I got onto a degree course at Harrow, which was, um, workshop ceramics.

[00:05:08] So it's a very practical, um, degree.

[00:05:11] Learn how to, you know, make your, dig your clay, make clay glazes, build your own kilns.

[00:05:19] Um, and you know, it was just an amazing time.

[00:05:26] Um, we had lots of visiting lecturers at that.

[00:05:30] This was in the early nineties.

[00:05:32] So courses were free, um, believe it or not.

[00:05:37] And, um, they had money for, you know, all these amazing people to come in and talk about their work.

[00:05:44] Um, which was just incredible.

[00:05:50] Um, and, uh, I, I spent, you know, a lot of time mixing up my own glazes and everything, but I never really came up with anything that I, you know, I must've made up a thousand glazes,

[00:06:07] but didn't really come up with anything that I really thought I wanted to use.

[00:06:14] I know, I know what you mean.

[00:06:15] I've got a box.

[00:06:16] I've got probably three boxes of little test tiles in my studio where I've mixed up different things and tried them at different temperatures and firing schedules, but I never really found something that really worked for me.

[00:06:29] No, I mean, some people, they, they hit on a glaze and it, you know, it just works for them.

[00:06:34] And, and, um, you know, I was always looking for that kind of one glaze that, you know, was the one.

[00:06:42] Yeah.

[00:06:43] And, um, so many disappointments, you know, I really, I'm not a big shiny person, you know, I don't, I don't like shiny glazes.

[00:06:52] Um, you know, one, um, aspect of Lucy Rhee that I really was drawn to was, you know, her mat work with the Sgraffito lines, very delicate lines in, you know, kind of the, the blacks.

[00:07:05] And, um, yeah, I was, you know, very, very drawn to that.

[00:07:11] Mm hmm.

[00:07:12] She does have beautiful work.

[00:07:14] I too am drawn to her work and, uh, often I'll reference that when I'm, I mean, I do very different things now, but, um, I find myself really loving her work as well.

[00:07:24] Yeah.

[00:07:24] I wrote her a letter once when I was young, I never posted it to her.

[00:07:28] And I regret that because she died shortly afterwards, but you know, she was, she was the biggest influence on me wanting to be a Potter, you know, definitely.

[00:07:39] And it sounds like that you really paid attention to what you loved and went with that as opposed to doing something in your life career wise that, uh, somebody said you should do versus something that you want.

[00:07:53] Yeah, definitely.

[00:07:54] Definitely.

[00:07:54] I, I felt quite lucky that, um, you know, it was, you know, in my, about 18 that I, you know, really thought this is what I want to do.

[00:08:03] And then, you know, how do I get to that point?

[00:08:07] Um, and everything, you know, all the college courses and everything.

[00:08:11] I was at college for quite a long time, probably about seven years, but I, I knew where I wanted to get to, which was, you know, having my own studio and making my own work.

[00:08:21] Yeah.

[00:08:22] Um, I just didn't know what, what work that would be that, you know, the thing with clay is it's this such a variety of what you can make, which is the beauty of it.

[00:08:33] But it's also, it's quite overwhelming.

[00:08:37] And that, uh, especially at university, I, I, you know, I, I did a lot of chopping and changing, you know, and experimenting.

[00:08:48] Um, we, because it was workshop ceramics, it was, it was a very practical course and they had two solid days of throwing, um, production throwing.

[00:08:58] So learning how to, you know, repeat a shape.

[00:09:01] So you'd throw, you'd, you know, cut it in half and, um, yeah, you wouldn't be precious about anything.

[00:09:07] And that, I think that was a really important grounding.

[00:09:11] Um, cause I've always, the, the wheel has always been my passion.

[00:09:16] Um, yeah, I just, you know, find it magical and I still find it magical.

[00:09:21] You know, it's addictive in some ways, isn't it?

[00:09:24] We, uh, you get touched on by clay and, uh, and you can't stop.

[00:09:29] Yeah.

[00:09:30] Hey, tell, tell, uh, us a little bit about what you mean by workshop ceramics.

[00:09:35] So you talked about, you mentioned that a couple of times.

[00:09:37] That was the title of it.

[00:09:38] So I think it started in the sixties.

[00:09:41] It was quite a well-known course at Harrow.

[00:09:45] Um, uh, well-regarded.

[00:09:49] And I think when I went there, it was in a bit of a transition.

[00:09:52] It didn't really know whether it was still very much a practical course.

[00:09:56] You know, we, we made our own glazes and, you know, we had a big clay pit outside where

[00:10:03] we, you know, even in the winter, you'd have to, you know, dig your own clay and pug it back

[00:10:08] into being usable clay.

[00:10:10] Um, and it, you know, it, it taught you everything you needed to know to, to have your own business.

[00:10:16] So you had business studies as well.

[00:10:19] Um, so it was a very practical course, but at the time that I went, it was trying to be

[00:10:25] a bit more arty as well.

[00:10:28] So it, it kind of didn't know what it, what it was.

[00:10:32] And I, I'm very much, um, you know, I'm, I don't really do art speak.

[00:10:40] You know, my pots have no greater deep meaning to them.

[00:10:46] You know, I'm, I'm quite practical.

[00:10:49] Um, I like beauty and things, you know, I, I try and make beautiful work as opposed to

[00:10:57] something with deep meaning.

[00:10:59] But I think a lot of the time at, at university, they wanted you to, you know, have all this

[00:11:04] deep meaning to your work.

[00:11:05] And I, I struggled a bit with that, I think, you know, yeah, well, I mean, you've obviously

[00:11:11] hit a really great spot in your work.

[00:11:14] You have many, many followers on social media and people have your work and, and you're very

[00:11:21] successful.

[00:11:21] So good for you.

[00:11:23] Yeah.

[00:11:23] It's funny about, you know, people love the peel and reveal videos, but, you know, I think

[00:11:28] that was in lockdown.

[00:11:29] I started to post those, but, you know, up until then I thought, you know, people wouldn't

[00:11:36] be interested in my work because it's, it takes so long.

[00:11:40] It would be like watching paint dry.

[00:11:42] You know, it's, there's, there's a lot of time in between and, um, yeah, that's the beauty

[00:11:48] of, you know, speed it up, um, speed it up bill, especially to put to nice music as well.

[00:11:55] Yeah.

[00:11:55] Um, so yeah, I quite enjoy watching those back as well.

[00:11:59] Yeah.

[00:11:59] So, so you mentioned that it takes a long time to create your work.

[00:12:04] Can you describe for people, I'm sure people will go to your website and your Instagram,

[00:12:09] uh, site and, you know, we'll make posts with, or we'll, uh, include all that information.

[00:12:14] Yeah.

[00:12:15] No notes.

[00:12:16] Uh, but, um, tell people a little bit about, uh, your work and, and what you do and how

[00:12:22] you do it.

[00:12:23] Sure.

[00:12:23] Um, well, I decorate with paper resist.

[00:12:28] Um, and it's a technique that I've been doing for about 20 years.

[00:12:33] Um, it's quite a simple technique in that you, um, take paper.

[00:12:40] Uh, I now use plain newsprint like fish and chip paper.

[00:12:44] Um, so it's nothing special.

[00:12:46] It's not, you know, sticky, it's not plastic coated or anything.

[00:12:49] It's kind of once use only.

[00:12:51] And I cut, um, by hand with a scalpel, um, either leaf shapes or, you know, stems that

[00:13:00] wrap around my pots.

[00:13:28] Um, I apply it with water and I do everything at the greenware stage.

[00:13:31] And I apply it with that bit of flux in it.

[00:13:33] So you can apply it like a slip.

[00:13:35] You can also apply it onto this as well, but I, I apply it like a slip and it becomes like

[00:13:41] a skin, you know, on the clay, on the piece.

[00:13:46] Um, and I will brush on four or five coats of, you know, thinnish color, um, to get, get

[00:13:55] that solidness.

[00:13:56] And the reason I do that is I don't want any thick brush marks.

[00:14:00] You know, I'd use a soft brush and I'll cross hatch, uh, quite quickly.

[00:14:05] So there's no kind of text.

[00:14:10] There's a slight texture in that.

[00:14:11] And I like that.

[00:14:12] Um, everything is, is going back to when I throw them, everything is thrown and, um,

[00:14:19] I will apply a white on go before I start decorating because I don't, although I love

[00:14:25] throwing, I don't want any, you know, slight turning marks or anything like that.

[00:14:31] So I will really turn my pieces, you know, till they almost squeak, till they, they're

[00:14:37] like almost burnished.

[00:14:38] Mm-hmm.

[00:14:39] And then I will apply this three or four coats of white on go, again, cross hatching.

[00:14:45] So you get a blank canvas, but you get a very slight texture.

[00:14:51] So it's all, you know, I love hand built pottery.

[00:14:55] And I think the shapes that you can get in, in, um, you know, hand building, small bases

[00:15:01] going, you know, flaring up.

[00:15:02] I love that kind of shape, but I love throwing.

[00:15:07] So I don't want to have, you know, I, I want something that's thrown.

[00:15:10] So I, it's the best of both worlds.

[00:15:14] You know, I throw something, but I almost make it look slightly hand built by putting

[00:15:20] this kind of slight texture on.

[00:15:23] Mm-hmm.

[00:15:24] Um, and then I, yeah, I'll apply the paper, apply the coats.

[00:15:29] Um, and you have to let each one dry in between, um, to become touch dry before you put the

[00:15:36] next coat on.

[00:15:38] And although it's a simple technique, there's quite a lot of different things that can go

[00:15:43] wrong.

[00:15:43] And even now I've, you know, I've been doing it 20 years.

[00:15:46] I still have a lot of mistakes because especially on the.

[00:15:51] Couldn't go wrong.

[00:15:52] Well, especially things like the shoulders, you know, if you, if you brush the color on,

[00:15:59] sometimes it lifts the underneath off.

[00:16:04] Um, and you know, it's not until the glaze firing that it becomes apparent that it's

[00:16:09] slightly patchy.

[00:16:11] Or if you have it too thick, it can bubble.

[00:16:15] And that's a, you know, those two things, there's a, there's a really fine line between,

[00:16:20] you know, it being right and it being wrong.

[00:16:24] And because it looks so simple, there's no, there's nowhere to hide any errors.

[00:16:31] You know, if it's wrong, it's wrong.

[00:16:33] Yeah.

[00:16:34] Um, and yeah, I, I'm having a real issue with, um, the, the, the, the,

[00:16:40] the, the, the, the, the, the, the, and the, the, the, the, the, the, the, and the, uh,

[00:16:57] so that just bubbles the whole time.

[00:17:09] Yeah. You can never become complacent with ceramics. It always keeps you on your toes. If you think you've got one thing sorted, then something else goes wrong.

[00:17:20] Yeah. You know, one of the things that's striking me as I'm listening to you talk is that you really need, you must really need to have your full attention on your work.

[00:17:34] You know, you're talking about different layers and cross-hatching and the right moisture level in each layer before you put on the next one.

[00:17:48] And I could see that for somebody who might lose their attention, that would be a difficult process. So you must really pay attention.

[00:17:57] Yes, I do. I have a piece of paper that I, you know, mark down how many layers I've put on of each one.

[00:18:03] Because sometimes you think, well, is that three or four? You know, so I do. I'm quite meticulous at, you know, marking down exactly how many coats I've put on.

[00:18:15] And also, you know, I've got children, so I work from home, but I, you know, have to run them off to places and everything.

[00:18:22] So if I know I haven't got a full day, especially a larger piece, it will take me all day to decorate.

[00:18:30] You know, I can't do it if I know I've got to be off elsewhere.

[00:18:37] So especially with my bigger pieces, I tend to apply the paper one day, which will take like a whole day to work out the pattern.

[00:18:46] And then the next, I'll cover it back over with plastic.

[00:18:49] And then the next day, I'll have a full day to paint it.

[00:18:53] It takes you a full day to do one piece?

[00:18:56] Pretty much. I mean, you know, it is a very long process because of all the drying as well.

[00:19:04] In the summer, you know, there's kind of an optimum time where things dry out kind of nicely, fairly quick, but not too quick.

[00:19:13] When it's at the height of summer, things dry out too quick, you know, and that's not good because the paper starts to peel off and everything.

[00:19:19] But then, you know, in the winter when it's damp, things take so long to dry, you know, so you can't, there's no speeding up as well.

[00:19:28] You can't start drying it with a hairdryer or anything because that would just lift the paper off.

[00:19:33] So it's, yeah, it's a simple technique, but there's a lot, you know, that can go wrong.

[00:19:40] And I think that's why I've done it for so long is that I've never got bored with it.

[00:19:47] There's, it's like safe jeopardy, you know, there's lots of things that can go wrong, but at the end of the day, it's just a pot, you know, it's not.

[00:19:57] So it's, it's enough of a, oh, will this, you know, will this go right?

[00:20:03] Yeah, that's interesting.

[00:20:05] That's interesting, eh?

[00:20:05] Because I think the naive person, the person who doesn't understand clay or, or those kinds of things will look at your work and go, oh, that probably doesn't take her very much time.

[00:20:16] But in fact, what you're describing is, is, is a process that takes quite a lot of time.

[00:20:23] Well, that's not the end of it as well, because I'll bisquire and when I get that out, I'll, I'll go over every edge just to crisp it up.

[00:20:31] Because with, because I apply so much color on when I peel the paper off, sometimes the edges can not really be jagged so much, but just slightly not as crisp as I'd like.

[00:20:44] So I go over each edge, then I glaze, fire it again, and then I'll sand everything after firing with wet and dry paper because the ongo tends to be quite cat's tonguey, you know, a bit rough.

[00:21:00] And I, and I don't like that.

[00:21:03] I want them to be, you know, tactile objects, especially like the little tiny ones.

[00:21:07] I want them to be held and, and enjoyed.

[00:21:11] So I'll sand and then I apply a Renaissance wax, which just protects the surface.

[00:21:18] So there's all those kinds of stages after it's being fired that to be honest are a bit boring.

[00:21:24] I don't really, I don't like glazing, but I do glaze the inside because although I don't see it as a functional piece, I see it as a decorative piece.

[00:21:33] I want, I want, I want it to be functional if somebody wants to use it.

[00:21:38] Do you know what I mean?

[00:21:39] Yeah, I sure do.

[00:21:40] So the outside is finished with your ongobe.

[00:21:44] Yeah.

[00:21:44] And the inside is finished with a glaze.

[00:21:47] Yeah.

[00:21:47] But the outside is then finished with some wax afterwards.

[00:21:52] Yeah.

[00:21:52] The Renaissance wax, I think the British Museum came up with it to kind of protect.

[00:21:57] I think you can put it on, you know, photographs and paintings and things like that.

[00:22:04] It's, yeah, it's, it, it doesn't give like a high sheen, but it just stops kind of finger marks and things like that.

[00:22:13] So, yeah, I like to, you know, I like things to be just right.

[00:22:20] And it, you know.

[00:22:21] Yeah, for sure.

[00:22:23] Takes, takes its time.

[00:22:25] But, you know, I have a lot of, even now I have a lot of pieces that, you know, come out the kiln and they're bubbled or they've got a patch, you know, and then that's it.

[00:22:36] You know, it's taken you all that time to, to get to that point.

[00:22:40] And, you know, they just are seconds.

[00:22:44] What do you, what do you do with your seconds?

[00:22:46] I have friends who say, oh, I'll never sell a second.

[00:22:50] I have seconds that I chuck in the bin.

[00:22:52] How about you?

[00:22:53] What do you do with your seconds?

[00:22:54] Well, I think when, when they're so bad, I will just, you know, take a hammer to them, which my kids delighted a bit too much.

[00:23:06] You know, it's like, hang on a minute.

[00:23:07] But, yeah, my mother-in-law has a lot of, you know, kind of hedgehog homes and stuff like that, you know, pots that, you know, were seconds.

[00:23:16] But generally now they're kind of good enough to sell, but they're not gallery, you know, they're not, not so good to go to galleries.

[00:23:29] So I, I have open studios in June every year.

[00:23:34] So I will, you know, sell them at quite, you know, quite reduced prices.

[00:23:39] Yeah.

[00:23:40] Yeah.

[00:23:41] Which is quite nice.

[00:23:42] You know, I had some this year and, and somebody bought a couple of pieces and said, oh, I didn't think I'd ever be able to afford your work.

[00:23:51] But I, you know, he was very delighted to have these slight seconds.

[00:23:56] So, yeah, it was nice.

[00:23:58] Good that they go to loving homes.

[00:24:00] You know, I'm quite pleased with that.

[00:24:02] That's right.

[00:24:03] And out in the garden to leave for a hedgehog to wander into, it sounds like.

[00:24:08] Very good.

[00:24:10] Now, now tell us about the color you use and how, why you choose the colors you do and, and what kind of approach are you getting at when you think, when you're thinking of color?

[00:24:22] Okay.

[00:24:24] So.

[00:24:25] I, the colors I use now are all, so on the ongoing, and then I'll use commercial stains to get the colors.

[00:24:35] Um, when I was at university, I, I would do vitreous lips, which are pretty much ongoes, but I would decorate them with more oxide.

[00:24:46] So cobalt and copper and manganese, um, to be a bit more random, I think.

[00:24:55] But I like, I like the commercial colors, but it's taken me quite a while to come up with a range that I like.

[00:25:05] Like, when you look online and you see all these, you know, like a kid in a sweet shop, all these different colors and amazing names and everything.

[00:25:13] And, you know, you try them out and like a bright orange becomes a peach or something, you know, it's, they're quite disappointing quite a lot of the time.

[00:25:21] Um, so it's taken me, taken me a long while.

[00:25:25] I've, I've bought a lot of commercial stains in the past and probably, you know, 60% of them.

[00:25:33] I haven't, you know, I don't use because they didn't come out very well.

[00:25:38] Um, but it's taken me a while to have a, get a range that sits nicely together.

[00:25:46] Um, I, I used to use kind of turquoises and, and a red iron oxide, but I didn't like the way they sat together.

[00:25:55] So they, you know, kind of ditched them.

[00:25:57] Um, um, so it's always nice when you try a new color and you, and it goes well with the other colors that you've got.

[00:26:06] Um, so yeah, it's just, it's taken a while to, to get to a range of colors that I think work nicely together and, and on their own as well.

[00:26:20] Um, my favorite combination at the moment is, uh, um, an emerald and a yellow.

[00:26:26] Um, but the first time I did it, um, I opened the kiln and my first response was, oh, yuck.

[00:26:35] It was, you know, it was so bright and, um, I just thought it was horrible and it stayed on my shelf for a while.

[00:26:46] And after a couple of months, it became my favorite piece.

[00:26:51] And I really loved the combination.

[00:26:53] And I, I mean, that's my favorite combination now, but I dialed the yellow down a bit.

[00:26:57] So it's not quite so intense.

[00:27:00] So it's a, a pale yellow, white and emerald, and it's just beautiful together.

[00:27:06] I'm really, really pleased with that combination.

[00:27:09] Um, so yeah, that's my, my favorite combo at the moment.

[00:27:14] So you work with a, you work with a palette, do you, that, uh, when you're going to, uh, color your work, do you select ahead of time, the palette that you want to start to work with?

[00:27:25] Um, generally, yeah.

[00:27:28] Generally I'll have an idea of, you know, what, what I want to do.

[00:27:34] Um, but sometimes it will just be the white and another color, which is, you know, a fairly simple, um, thing to decide.

[00:27:44] And then, yeah, with the other, the, the leaf patterns have become a bit more intricate.

[00:27:52] So, you know, I started kind of overlaying color over color.

[00:27:58] Um, and generally it's a light color underneath and a darker color on top.

[00:28:05] And it's a bit like, um, screen printing where the, the color you apply last is actually the background color.

[00:28:13] And so you, you go from kind of light to dark.

[00:28:19] Um, so, you know, I'll, I'll work on kind of pieces for a gallery that would then sit well together.

[00:28:27] So, yeah, I generally have an idea of, you know, what color combos to do.

[00:28:34] Um, and I, you know, I'll, I'll work to commissions.

[00:28:37] People will say they want this color or this piece in this color.

[00:28:41] So I'm quite happy to do that.

[00:28:46] Um, but yeah, I, I don't, I don't have a, uh, a, you know, a very rare, varied palette.

[00:28:55] It's all, you know, it tends to be kind of blues, blacks, uh, it's a purple, green.

[00:29:02] It's, it's quite limited.

[00:29:05] Um, and, and erring on more kind of slightly muted, you know, when, when I decorate them

[00:29:11] and I do the peel and reveal, they, they're quite intense colors.

[00:29:14] I think my phone, you know, makes them look quite, quite intense as well.

[00:29:20] But once they're fired, they, they're kind of toned down a bit, um, which I much prefer.

[00:29:28] Yeah.

[00:29:28] And now, now what does your, what do your clients say about your palette and your color?

[00:29:34] Um, obviously you're in lots of galleries and selling your work professionally.

[00:29:39] What kind of reaction do people have to your work?

[00:29:44] Um, I think, I think the most popular colors tend to be, um, like the sea blue and the blue

[00:29:52] gray and like black and gray.

[00:29:55] I, annoyingly the black and gray is the one that I have most issues with, but that's kind

[00:30:00] of my, one of my favorite combos.

[00:30:03] Um, but yeah, I, you know, I think people like the color range that I have, the emerald

[00:30:11] and yellow one that I've is my favorite at the moment.

[00:30:14] That seems to be the one that I'm making most for the people at the moment, which, you

[00:30:20] know, is interesting.

[00:30:21] Yeah.

[00:30:22] Yeah.

[00:30:22] Well, we make what we like, don't we?

[00:30:24] Yes, absolutely.

[00:30:25] Hey, now tell, now, you know, we, uh, the show is about color and surface design, of course.

[00:30:30] And so here we are talking about that, but there needs to be a balance, uh, in the, in relation

[00:30:37] to the form.

[00:30:38] How do you think about the form and color and surface design in their relation to each other?

[00:30:45] Um, very much.

[00:30:47] It's all one piece.

[00:30:49] Um, I, the, the way I decorate, I like, you know, the, the decoration is part of the form.

[00:30:57] Um, and I'm especially liking making, uh, like big hot air balloon type forms at the moment,

[00:31:05] smaller bases.

[00:31:06] So they look like they're, you know, on tiptoes.

[00:31:09] Um, and, uh, the big volume, you know, is, is great for decorating.

[00:31:15] So when I first started making them, there'd be like a front and a back, you know, it would

[00:31:20] be very obvious.

[00:31:22] Um, but now I'm kind of intertwining the more, you know, the, the stem curves around the,

[00:31:29] the form and then interconnects.

[00:31:32] Um, so I'm very, I very much think about how the, how the pattern will fit that shape.

[00:31:39] Um, yeah, which, which, you know, gets me quite excited really.

[00:31:45] Yeah.

[00:31:46] So tell us how you do, tell us how you do that.

[00:31:48] Like what's your, um, methodology, I guess, in terms of how you approach the form with your

[00:31:56] work?

[00:31:57] Um, well, interestingly, sometimes I, I don't know how the piece is going to be decorated.

[00:32:03] Um, you know, I'll know, I'll make a form and, you know, I'll, I'll kind of ask it, you

[00:32:09] know, what, how are we, how are you getting, you know, what do you want to be like?

[00:32:13] Um, and sometimes, you know, I'll start cutting a stem and it, you know, it just kind of, you

[00:32:21] know, sits right.

[00:32:23] Or, I mean, sometimes I'm, I cut and I recut because, you know, a flat piece going onto a

[00:32:30] three dimensional form, you know, you want it to go down and it, you know, you wrap it

[00:32:34] around and it goes up.

[00:32:36] Um, so it's taken me a long while to, you know, decorate on a three dimensional piece.

[00:32:43] And there's a, there's been a lot of trial and error and, you know, making things and

[00:32:48] going, oh, I don't like how that bit works or, or, or I really like how that bit works.

[00:32:54] I'm going to do that again.

[00:32:55] So, I mean, I don't do any, I don't do any sketching.

[00:32:59] I don't do, you know, um, because it would be easy to, you know, decorate a platter or

[00:33:07] something with cut bits of paper because it's flat, but the moment it goes on a three

[00:33:12] dimensional piece, you know, it, it, it's taken a while to learn.

[00:33:18] Well, you know, if I cut it this shape, it, it will then flow around.

[00:33:23] Um, so yeah, there's, there's a lot of trial and error and then, you know, just patterns

[00:33:30] evolve, um, and become more intricate, you know, and you, you do this and you think, oh,

[00:33:36] I could add that to it or, and with the daisy ones, you know, I started off fairly simple,

[00:33:42] but then I put, put the extra color on and it's, you know, it makes this lovely kind of

[00:33:48] star shape at the top where there is no paper.

[00:33:52] Um, so there's, you know, things like that, that you, yeah, that you discover by doing it.

[00:33:59] Sometimes they just occur, don't they?

[00:34:01] And then in a kind of organic way and, um, and then you can remember that because you

[00:34:07] keep meticulous notes.

[00:34:08] Yeah.

[00:34:09] Yeah.

[00:34:10] And also the, because I film everything peeling off, if, you know, if somebody wants something

[00:34:18] similar, I've, you know, I can rewatch the video and see how it looks all the way around.

[00:34:24] So, you know, I have, it's a record as well as, you know, being something fun to look at.

[00:34:32] Yes.

[00:34:32] That's really a smart thing to do.

[00:34:34] I, I, you know, I think the notion of keeping track of what you do and, you know, you were

[00:34:39] talking about how many layers do I put on and I keep track of that's a smart thing.

[00:34:44] I'm going to remember that because I sometimes run into that myself, but I, but I, um, I think

[00:34:50] the idea of tracking and keeping records is, uh, very smart.

[00:34:55] And the other thing that I love that I hadn't thought of before is to video record each of

[00:35:01] those things as well, so that you can go back and reference it for yourself.

[00:35:06] Yeah.

[00:35:06] What a great idea.

[00:35:11] Yeah.

[00:35:12] Yes, absolutely.

[00:35:14] So you've talked a little bit about some of your challenges that you've had with, uh, some

[00:35:21] of the new stains that you're getting, right?

[00:35:23] You said the black's just not quite working and the gray is not just quite working.

[00:35:28] And, and, and some of the challenges that you've had with figuring out how to cut a

[00:35:34] piece, uh, particularly like your stems of your, uh, plants, right.

[00:35:39] So that they flow around the piece effectively.

[00:35:42] What, as you've developed this style, what would you say is your biggest challenge and

[00:35:49] how did you overcome that?

[00:35:52] Uh, I think, well, I think the biggest challenge is, you know, what I've talked about the,

[00:35:56] the bubbling and the patchiness, and I'm not sure I have overcome that yet.

[00:36:00] You know, it's always striving for, you know, this elusive perfection.

[00:36:05] Um, yeah, I, I think when I, when I was younger, I'd look at other people and I'd go,

[00:36:14] I'd be really happy if I was making your work, you know, I was very self-critical and I, and

[00:36:21] I never really liked anything that I made in the past.

[00:36:26] And I think probably the, you know, the, the biggest thing is, you know, discovering a style

[00:36:34] that I actually really enjoy making.

[00:36:40] Um, and yeah, I, I, you know, I, I still am quite self-critical and sometimes, you know,

[00:36:47] I'll get a piece out and think, oh, that's dreadful, but sometimes I'll get out a piece

[00:36:52] and I'll be really proud, you know, and go, yeah, you know, that's good.

[00:36:56] I've got a couple of pieces on my shelf actually that I don't, I don't want to get rid of yet.

[00:37:02] You know, I don't want to sell because, you know, I think, especially with the decoration,

[00:37:10] quite often, you know, it's nice from a couple of angles, but then, you know, there's one

[00:37:15] that's not, you know, quite right or, and the one on my shelf, it looks nice from every

[00:37:21] angle.

[00:37:22] And I think, you know, that, that I probably can't make anything as nice as that ever again.

[00:37:28] So that piece is staying home.

[00:37:30] No, you know, I put a huge price on that one.

[00:37:33] So, you know, I don't really want to sell it.

[00:37:36] Hey, now, now tell me, you've said that you are, can be self-critical and yet you have still

[00:37:45] worked away at it to make it great.

[00:37:48] Many people would have given up.

[00:37:50] They let that self-critical component overwhelm them in some ways.

[00:37:56] What has helped you not let that critical voice in our head win the battle?

[00:38:04] What, what's kept you in the game?

[00:38:06] Well, I mean, potters in general have to be resilient because you, you do get a lot of

[00:38:14] knocks, you know, you get, yeah, you got, get a lot of things that go wrong.

[00:38:20] And actually, when I left university, I went and worked in a studio called the Chocolate Factory

[00:38:29] in East London.

[00:38:30] And there were about 20 artists there.

[00:38:34] And it was, it was a great time.

[00:38:37] And I was making work.

[00:38:39] I was still decorating with ongos, but I was making ceramic lighting.

[00:38:44] So hand-built bases, thrown shades.

[00:38:47] And I would have, I'd have a three foot by three foot kiln that would take months of work.

[00:38:55] And, you know, you'd have a disastrous firing where everything went wrong.

[00:38:59] So there were a lot of tears and a lot of times when, you know, you just thought, oh, what

[00:39:04] am I doing?

[00:39:05] And actually, I left there when I was expecting my first child.

[00:39:11] So she's now 18.

[00:39:14] But I didn't want to touch clay ever again.

[00:39:16] It was like, I'm done with it.

[00:39:19] I'd had so many, you know, things go wrong.

[00:39:22] And, and actually, for four years, I didn't touch clay.

[00:39:26] And I just immersed myself in motherhood.

[00:39:29] And it was only when she started school.

[00:39:31] And it was a very arty school.

[00:39:34] And the, you know, the headmistress discovered that I, you know, was a potter.

[00:39:39] And I helped them buy a kiln and glazes and clays and, and, and went in and volunteered there.

[00:39:47] And it was only through the kids' enjoyment of making clay that, you know, then reignited my, you know, passion again.

[00:40:01] And actually, I, I got the kids, like, really lovely white urban wear and the nice Amoco velvet underglazes in the bright colors.

[00:40:12] Because I think there's nothing worse than school buff clay with a, you know, insipid clear glaze over the top.

[00:40:20] It's very uninspiring.

[00:40:21] So, you know, these kids would be making beautiful, you know, flat tiles with gorgeous, bright colors.

[00:40:29] And their, their excitement at seeing these pieces, you know, it, it, yeah, it made me want to do it again.

[00:40:36] And actually, I'd kept all my stuff.

[00:40:38] So I must have, you know, subconsciously known that I would go back to clay.

[00:40:43] But at the time, I, you know, I'd had enough.

[00:40:47] It can be very challenging, can't it?

[00:40:49] But I, I feel like I keep being given the opportunity to learn patience.

[00:40:57] Because clay requires a lot of patience, doesn't it?

[00:41:02] Yeah, definitely.

[00:41:04] Patience, resilience.

[00:41:06] Yeah.

[00:41:07] And, and actually, when I pack a kiln, you know, my motto is, you know, always expect the worst.

[00:41:13] And if it's good, it's a bonus, you know.

[00:41:16] It's, that's, that's the way I look at it, really.

[00:41:20] So.

[00:41:20] Absolutely.

[00:41:21] Now, what, what advice would you have?

[00:41:24] We've talked a lot about your journey.

[00:41:26] Yeah.

[00:41:27] And the, the, you just talked a little bit about that period of time where you stopped and then you, the bug got you again.

[00:41:33] Yes.

[00:41:34] Which I'm grateful for.

[00:41:37] What advice would you have for a budding potter?

[00:41:42] Somebody who is just getting going in the, in the clay work.

[00:41:48] Um, well, it depends on what they want to do.

[00:41:53] If they want, if they're interested in throwing, I would say, uh, find a, a course, you know, like an intensive weeks course or something.

[00:42:02] Because I used to teach evening classes and, you know, people would come along, uh, each week for a couple of hours.

[00:42:10] And they'd really want to learn how to throw.

[00:42:13] But they only had a couple of hours each week.

[00:42:15] So by the time the next week came along, they were back, you know, still struggling to center or whatever.

[00:42:21] Whereas if you do an intensive course, you know, weeks course somewhere, um, you know, you can, you can practice, practice, practice, which is just what it needs.

[00:42:32] You know, you need time to, you know, do one, you know, take it off, do another one, you know, that, that kind of, um, and also have, have fun.

[00:42:46] Because, you know, that's, that's what it's about, really.

[00:42:50] It's, you know, playing for a living.

[00:42:52] I feel very, you know, very lucky to have a, it's, you know, it's more of a life choice than a job.

[00:43:01] You know, and the moment it becomes just a job, you know, that's, you know, it's not, you know, generally, most people don't make a huge amount of money out of doing this.

[00:43:15] It's, it's more, it's more that they have to do.

[00:43:19] It's a passion.

[00:43:20] You know, if I, if I haven't touched clay for a few days, I've become, you know, I've just got to get out there.

[00:43:26] Yeah.

[00:43:28] So, um, so, you know, yeah, definitely practice, practice, practice, have fun.

[00:43:35] And, you know, just try and make what you want to make rather than what you think other people want to buy.

[00:43:44] Because if you, if you always think, well, I'll need to, you know, I'll try and make this because I need to sell it.

[00:43:50] And if your heart isn't in it, it, it comes out in the piece, you know, it.

[00:43:55] If you're, if you enjoy making something, I think that shows in the piece, you know, I fill my pots with love and hopefully, you know, people can, can get that from seeing them.

[00:44:08] I don't know.

[00:44:09] I, I totally agree with you.

[00:44:11] It's the energy that we put into our work comes out in the, on the other side when somebody is looking at it.

[00:44:19] So I agree.

[00:44:21] Georgie, thank you so much for being with us today.

[00:44:24] I really appreciate you spending the time and the energy and sharing your ideas of how you make your beautiful work.

[00:44:34] Well, it's been a pleasure talking to you, Bob.

[00:44:36] I've really enjoyed it.

[00:44:38] Thanks.

[00:44:38] Thank you so much.

[00:44:40] Thanks for listening to the color and ceramics podcast with Bob Acton and his guests.

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[00:44:58] And don't forget to give us a review.

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[00:45:02] There we go.