Rick Rubin with Jay Shetty (brief episode)

[00:00:07] Welcome to Colour and Ceramics, the podcast for ceramic artists who want valuable ideas about using color from leading artists and world-class experts.

[00:00:17] Here's your host, Bob Acton, a sculptor and ceramic artist who's fascinated with color and how potters, sculptors, and artists use color in their work.

[00:00:27] Tune in as he talks with his guests about color, techniques, and the impact of color on people and art itself.

[00:00:33] Hi, I'm Bob Acton, and today we're going to do something a little different on the Colour and Ceramics podcast.

[00:00:39] I'm presenting a short little interview of Rick Rubin, who is the author of The Creative Act, A Way of Being.

[00:00:47] And this interview has been conducted by Jay Shetty, and I think you'll really enjoy it as Rick speaks to some common issues for creatives.

[00:00:58] I don't look at the outside very much.

[00:01:02] I look inward and try to focus on what do I feel, what am I seeing, in the hopes that by sharing what's going on in me, it maybe resonates with someone else.

[00:01:15] I can't predict what someone else would like, and I don't think anybody can.

[00:01:20] So if I'm true, authentically true to myself, that's the best chance of someone else liking something.

[00:01:28] People like to be accepted.

[00:01:29] People want to be accepted.

[00:01:30] And I'm suggesting in the book that the best way to be accepted is to be yourself.

[00:01:36] It's not to change yourself to what someone else thinks.

[00:01:40] First of all, you don't really know what someone else thinks.

[00:01:43] And if you're not genuine to yourself, there's like nothing is there.

[00:01:49] It's just a projection or a mask.

[00:01:52] It's not true.

[00:01:54] In a sea of information, the more yours is personal, the more it's not like hers or his or theirs.

[00:02:05] It's yours.

[00:02:06] There are these different points of view around us.

[00:02:09] If we're all thinking the same thing, it's boring.

[00:02:13] Why would we make anything if everyone thinks the same thing?

[00:02:16] What makes us interesting are the differences.

[00:02:19] And even the imperfections.

[00:02:22] The imperfections are what makes us humans, what makes us what we are.

[00:02:26] As we get new information, we have to evolve.

[00:02:30] How can we live in an old belief?

[00:02:32] If you believe the same thing that you believed 20 years ago about everything, I don't know that you're living.

[00:02:38] You know, there's so much middle of the road.

[00:02:42] And it doesn't interest me.

[00:02:43] I want it because it's louder, quieter, softer, harder.

[00:02:52] It's pushing some boundary.

[00:02:54] That's why I take notice.

[00:02:56] It's not more of the same.

[00:02:58] It's not just another.

[00:03:00] It's the one that makes you stop and, did I really hear that?

[00:03:06] Did I really see that?

[00:03:07] What's going on here?

[00:03:09] You know, you see a movie where you have to lean forward and pay attention.

[00:03:12] Like, what's happening?

[00:03:14] It's not just the audience's hand is being held and walk through a story simply.

[00:03:20] I like the complexity and difficulty that forces me as the viewer to participate in what's going on.

[00:03:31] I'm not just being carried along.

[00:03:35] You know, if I like it, that doesn't mean anything.

[00:03:37] That's what people think.

[00:03:39] It's like, just because I like it, that doesn't give it any value.

[00:03:42] It's like, as an artist, if you like it, that's all of the value.

[00:03:45] That's the success comes when you say, I like this enough for other people to see it.

[00:03:52] Not other people like it so it's successful.

[00:03:55] That doesn't mean anything because that's, other people liking it is out of your control.

[00:03:59] All that's in your control is making the thing to the best of your ability.

[00:04:03] I talk about it, usually the way I talk about it is greatness.

[00:04:07] And that's the way I thought of it.

[00:04:08] My whole life was, my interest is in making something great, greatness, lasting greatness, timeless.

[00:04:14] And I came to realize recently, it's all an offering to God.

[00:04:18] And if you're making an offering to God, you're not thinking about, oh, what's the budget?

[00:04:23] Or, I hope this segment of the audience is going to like it.

[00:04:28] We don't think like that.

[00:04:30] It's a higher vibration.

[00:04:32] We're making the best we can make to the best of our ability out of love and devotion.

[00:04:39] That's what it is.

[00:04:41] And there is no, I'm changing it for someone else because it can't be better than this devotional act that we're doing.

[00:04:50] There is no higher, no higher form.

[00:04:53] Most of the artists I work with don't read any, any criticism or reviews of their work, good or bad.

[00:04:59] Most.

[00:05:00] Most.

[00:05:01] Some, some do.

[00:05:03] And I would say the ones who are the strongest in who they are can even read a terrible review and laugh at it.

[00:05:13] And that makes sense because when someone gives you criticism, it's telling you as much about who they are as what you've made.

[00:05:19] It's like we make things and then we make it with one through our filter, our perspective.

[00:05:27] And then you receive it through your filter with your perspective.

[00:05:32] So even if we both like it, we probably don't like it the same way for the same reasons.

[00:05:37] We all have our own relationship to it.

[00:05:40] Everyone has their own relationship to it.

[00:05:41] So any of these metrics of which is better, like the idea of the Oscars or the Grammys where we're saying which, which album is better than another.

[00:05:52] It doesn't make any sense to me because it's always apples and oranges.

[00:05:56] The only people who we can honestly compete with is ourselves.

[00:05:59] It's like, is this the best I can make today?

[00:06:02] Have I gone further than I've gone before?

[00:06:05] That's all we can do.

[00:06:06] That's the only competition that makes sense is continuing to evolve and push ourselves artistically and not get complacent, especially in success.

[00:06:16] It's easy to get complacent once something works.

[00:06:19] It's like, I'll just keep doing more of that.

[00:06:21] It ends up maybe one more time you can get away with it.

[00:06:26] But once three are similar, it stops being interesting.

[00:06:29] It's the obsessive nature of being really into something that once you start down a thread, you just keep pulling forever.

[00:06:42] If you're interested, many of the artists that are great at what they do are great at what they do for that very reason.

[00:06:48] They fall in love with this thing and then they just want to know everything they could possibly learn about it.

[00:06:55] And there are no distractions.

[00:06:57] I'm working on a project now, a documentary project with comedians.

[00:07:01] And one of the things that they talk about is their commitment.

[00:07:05] Like when other people are doing things on the weekend, going out with their friends,

[00:07:09] they're going to perform every, you know, every night that they can possibly go out and perform until they can get good at their craft.

[00:07:18] And this could be for a period of, you know, 10 years of just having bad performances, you know, having people not like what you do.

[00:07:25] Like banging your head against the wall.

[00:07:27] But that obsession with breaking through.

[00:07:32] And when I say breaking through, I don't mean breaking through to the audience.

[00:07:35] I mean breaking through with themselves to where they get past all of the blocks and to be free in this moment in a way where they can really express their views and be heard.

[00:07:51] And people can react.

[00:07:54] It's a fascinating thing.

[00:07:57] I think in general, people don't like to be told what to do.

[00:08:00] So the best way that you can inspire someone to do something is through the way that you carry yourself.

[00:08:09] If you act in a creative way in the world and you do it to the best of your ability, and if someone else recognizes it, it might inspire them to do the same.

[00:08:20] So I think it's hard to teach someone something that we don't practice.

[00:08:24] We have to practice it.

[00:08:26] Maybe your purpose in life isn't related to your job.

[00:08:31] Maybe your job is your job and the job is the thing that supports you.

[00:08:36] And then the rest of your waking hours are devoted to your purpose, whatever that is.

[00:08:41] If you need to have a job to support yourself, that's great.

[00:08:45] That's a noble thing to do.

[00:08:48] And follow your dreams.

[00:08:51] But I'm not saying they're one thing.

[00:08:53] They don't have to be one thing.

[00:08:55] And don't let following your dreams undermine your ability to support yourself.

[00:09:01] It could actually do the opposite.

[00:09:03] If you decide, I want to be a comedian and I'm putting all my eggs in the comedian basket and I'm going to be a comedian, the pressure of having to support yourself will change you as a comedian, not for the better.

[00:09:15] You want the stability of being able to take care of yourself in the world, to be free to do whatever your passion is, whatever it is.

[00:09:27] I think there's a mythology that the people who make things that we love are special people.

[00:09:34] And that we think that they're, you know, the people on Mount Olympus and they're these magic people who are geniuses.

[00:09:41] And then there's the rest of us.

[00:09:43] And that's not the case.

[00:09:44] It's like, we're all just people.

[00:09:46] We're all doing our best.

[00:09:48] We all are good at some things, not good at other things.

[00:09:51] We're humans.

[00:09:52] And sometimes we find a way to make something beautiful.

[00:09:56] And the call came, how do you feel?

[00:09:58] You have the number one album in the country.

[00:10:00] And I remember saying, I've never been more unhappy in my life.

[00:10:05] And I think we mistakenly think some kind of outward success is going to change something in us.

[00:10:15] And it does not.

[00:10:18] It may make life more comfortable, but it doesn't change who we are.

[00:10:22] And any hole in ourselves that we're hoping to fill does not get filled.

[00:10:30] And if you spend, let's say you spend 20 years of your life working towards a goal that's going to solve everything.

[00:10:39] And then you finally achieve what you've been trying to do for 20 years, toiling away.

[00:10:45] I won't have any fun because I'm working for 20 years for this end.

[00:10:50] And then you get that end and nothing changes.

[00:10:54] That's when you get hopeless.

[00:10:56] So it's not uncommon to see very successful artists who are very unhappy in life because they're working towards this, the thing that's going to make them feel better.

[00:11:07] And it does not make them feel better.

[00:11:10] I'm sure you've got to meet many very successful business people, billionaire people.

[00:11:17] Very few of them are happy.

[00:11:18] Very few.

[00:11:20] And they've accomplished their dreams and are unhappy because we don't know what we want.

[00:11:29] You know, we don't know what's going to make us happy.

[00:11:31] We're trying to fill something that maybe can't be filled through material or cultural success, public success.

[00:11:42] It's something else.

[00:11:43] It's some internal thing.

[00:11:45] Don't do things just because you think you're going to get something for it.

[00:11:48] But that's not why we do things.

[00:11:50] Do what's interesting to you.

[00:11:53] Follow what's interesting.

[00:11:55] Don't worry about the outcome.

[00:11:56] Yeah.

[00:11:57] We don't know.

[00:11:57] We can't predict the outcome.

[00:11:59] We can never predict the outcome.

[00:12:01] Follow your own inner guide.

[00:12:03] It directs us.

[00:12:04] It might not make sense.

[00:12:06] It might not make sense to us.

[00:12:07] Might not make sense to anyone else.

[00:12:09] Certainly won't make sense to anyone else.

[00:12:10] But it might not even make sense to us.

[00:12:12] And that's okay.

[00:12:13] It's fine.

[00:12:15] Yeah.

[00:12:15] Listen to yourself.

[00:12:16] Why is it telling you this?

[00:12:18] There are levels of wisdom that we don't know.

[00:12:22] We don't understand.

[00:12:24] So when you have an intuition to take the stairs instead of the elevator, or I always go home

[00:12:33] this way, but today for some reason I feel like going this other way.

[00:12:36] Yeah.

[00:12:37] Or maybe I'm going to cross the street and walk on that side of the street.

[00:12:40] Whatever it is.

[00:12:40] Whatever little intuitions in your body that come, listen to them.

[00:12:45] See what happens.

[00:12:46] Be open to there's more going on than we know.

[00:12:50] Yeah.

[00:12:51] There's a lot more than our conscious mind can pick up going on.

[00:12:55] The wisest thing we can do is know enough to know we don't know.

[00:13:00] Yeah.

[00:13:01] If you start from maybe, maybe that's true.

[00:13:05] It could work.

[00:13:06] Who knows?

[00:13:07] Yeah.

[00:13:07] Not hold anything so firm as this is the way it is.

[00:13:11] I know how it is.

[00:13:13] Anytime you know how it is, your world just got a lot smaller.

[00:13:17] Yeah.

[00:13:17] Tiny.

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